Guts Business Meeting – 05/05/2024

5/5/2024 Business Meeting Notes

BM Chair: Mark M. BM Co‐Chair: Dennis BM Secretary: Noelle

SC Members Present: Mark M, Dennis, Elle, Mark P, Christian, Suzie & Barbara

1. Treasurer’s Report (Elle)

$3,057.96 March beginning balance

+$667.03 total deposits

‐$467.64 total expenses

‐$77.82 pending ORC expense

+ $1,390.27 7th Tradition donations

$4,569.80 ending cash balance

Elle – Donations are up 120%, contributors up 120% and transactions up 76%! Co‐host’s announcements and emphasis on 7^th tradition each hour is WORKING!

Jerry M – I’ve been donating by VenMo. Are you receiving that?

Al G – Will check Venmo and transfer the funds to GiveButter. Al G & Elle will discuss the old Venmo acct offline.

Motion to approve Treasurer’s Report – Seconded and passed (23 Yes/0 Dissent)

2. ORC Report – Ana Maria – no report given

3. Committee Reports

Host Feedback Workshop (Kristen) – In the process of switching trainers

Unity Workshop (Lauren) – Not much to report. Lower attendance at the last workshop. Not sure if we want to continue them unless the group needs them again.

Intergroup Representative (Lauren) – Nothing to report

4. Polls/Voting (Lauren)

We will NOT implement zpolls for new service members. Nominations are open for the following positions:

GREEN FONT indicates winning candidates

1 SC Member (4 available)

Jason A. ‐ Nominated and Accepted (2 Yes/12 No)
Jason W. ‐ Nominated and Accepted (17 Yes/No Dissent)
Don M. ‐ Nominated and Accepted (19 Yes/No Dissent)
Sarah F. ‐ Nominated and Accepted (14 Yes/6 No)
John E. – Nominated and Accepted (21 Yes/No Dissent)
Susan W. – Nominated and Declined

1 BM Co‐Chair (SC Only)

Mary Mc ‐ Nominated and Accepted (30 Yes/1 Dissent)…also takes 1 SC position

3 Trainers

Dennis – Nominated and Accepted (14 Yes/4 Dissent) RUN OFF: (8 Yes/5 Dissent)
John E. – Nominated and Accepted (16 Yes/0 Dissent)
Don M. – Nominated and Accepted (14 Yes/0 Dissent) RUN OFF: (15 Yes/0 Dissent)
TC Tuna – Nominated and Accepted (7 Yes/11 Dissent)
Ian – Nominated and Accepted (19 Yes/3 Dissent)

1 Training Coordinator

Sarah F. ‐ Nominated and Accepted (16 Yes/2 Dissent)

1 Scheduler

Holly ‐ Nominated and Accepted (22 Yes/0 Dissent)

1 Zoom Admin

Ian – Nominated and Accepted (22 Yes/1 Dissent/1 frog)

1 SC Thread Admin (SC Only)

No nominations or volunteers

LGBTQIA+ Contact List/Bipoc Resources

No nominations or volunteers

Big Book Meeting

Amy – Nominated and Accepted (24 Yes/0 Dissent)

Women’s Meeting

Patty B. – Volunteered (19 Yes/0 Dissent)

Sister Meeting Hosts!!!!!!

Big Book Meeting and LGBTQIA+ Meetings have 0 Hosts. The Women’s meeting and Steps/Traditions meetings are hanging by a thread too. These Sister Meetings will not continue without hosts!!!!

Attention Cohosts!! If you would like to be fast tracked to Hosting, you can host one of these Sister Meetings and start hosting right away!!

Daren – How long do you have to be of service to be on SC? Answer: 3mos

Leona – Group conscious dictates that only 2 SC members are being elected to a full 6mo term and 2 are just finishing the term of the 2 recently vacated positions.

Jayna – Patty B was just trained and has not cohosted yet

Mark – We need folks to be of service for sister meetings…if we don’t have a host, we don’t have a meeting.

5. Website Update (Glenn)

1. • We took over a “patient on life support”. Website was overcomplicated and confusing and had too many unnecessary documents taking up space.
   • Some people still can’t access website because they need to clear their cache and cookies. Tech team can show folks how to do that.
   • Requesting a $9.99/mo (1^st business tier) expense to increase bandwidth (currently on $7.85/mo non‐profit tier).
   • We’re making slow, incremental changes to more easily diagnose issues.
   • Verification requests are now streamlined through website without anyone having to oversee it or send emails! Would like to add a message to the page informing folks that it’s their responsibility to keep their verification confirmation (ie. we won’t be storing that info on the server).
   • Topics email system overhauled. Only one tech person has access to it. Want to keep MailPoet service.
   • Website can still go down. Google Docs was voted in 23 to 0 last meeting and, even though the website’s fixed, we should have both so that this group/website is sustainable 10yrs down the line. Motion to implement BOTH website updates and Google Docs. (29 Yes/0 dissent)
   • Motion to make permanent the $9.99 website business tier level (28 Yes/0 Dissent)
   • Tech team’s new name is the “GUTSters Websters”
   • Team was asked to restore past BM notes but the April 27^th backup is corrupt. Luckily March backup is still on the server so will try and restore using that.
   • Motion to include “Donate Now” button on website to donate. Seconded and passed (26 Yes/0 Dissent)

Suzie, Jerry & Al G – Thank you for everything, Glenn and team. Very grateful for all your hard work!

Motion to approve Website Report – Seconded and passed (28 Yes/0 Dissent)

6. Group Inventory (Kristen)

1. • The GI committee decided to hold the GI mtg on June 8^th (a date everyone on committee could attend) with Jack as moderator. Jack isn’t there to answer questions, just to guide and moderate and keep us on track. June 22^nd will be the backup date if add’l time is needed. June 22^nd won’t be a rehashing of June 8^th’s inventory, just a continuation.
   • We decided everyone can attend and participate in the GI Mtg, not just service members. Nonetheless, will likely be predominantly service members.
   • We’ll come up with a formal announcement about the GI Mtg to present at regular meetings.

• Still deciding on timed shares and/or limiting number of shares (like at BM) but it might defeat the purpose of it being a “discussion” and an in‐depth analysis. Still solidifying details. Open to suggestions from the group as a whole.
• Any potential changes that come out of the GI Mtg will be addressed at a later BM.
• We’ll send the GI questions out ahead of time so everyone can review and answer them for themselves so we’re prepared. Should facilitate a smoother meeting.

Dennis – I feel we should have timed shares because we won’t have all day

Motion to approve Group Inventory Report – Seconded and passed (25 Yes/0 Dissent)

7. Moving GUTS‐Specific Documents from Website to a Google Drive – Mark P.

1. Issue: I am proposing, after talking to two members of the newly appointed Website Tech Team, that we pause the motion to move forward with switching the Host/Co‐Host Links (for Zoom Chat) & Meeting Format (Voice Script) from the AAGUTS website to Google Docs because of a few reasons.

1. 1. The Tech Team was voted in SIMULTANEOUSLY as the agenda to move the links from one format to another was voted on, being led to believe by the Web Admin at the time there was no other affordable solution.
   2. The newly appointed Website Tech Team needs TIME to be able to fix/clean up the website, most likely not more than one month to accomplish, I have been told.
   3. The Google Docs format is just not as User ‐ Friendly as having the links on the website, and this is not just my opinion of this, other Service Members I have talked to feel the same way. I think the Google Docs should continue to be there (pinned in WhatsApp) for back‐up, in case the website isn’t working or running slow, but I am adamantly against just shutting down the website and “Going Live” with the Google Docs permanently, as it seems it has been decided by one person, or perhaps a few people, in our Group.

Tradition Nine (Long Form) states, “”….true leaders in A.A. are but trusted and experienced servants of the whole. They derive no real authority from their titles; they do not govern.” 12&12, pgs. 191‐192.

Steering Committee Discussion Points:

1. • The point was made that many people may feel intimidated by Google Docs. Learning a new procedure can be time consuming as well as stressful, especially when the new procedure is not user friendly.
   • If we do delay the implementation of Google Docs, we should still be ready to implement it as it may get approved at the BM.
   • It was noted the Google Docs could also serve as a good back‐up solution in the event the web site becomes unexpectedly unavailable. The Google Docs could also be used simultaneously with the website. Service members may be willing to choose which solution is more comfortable for them. Points about double maintenance being too time consuming were added to this suggestion as cons.

1. • Google Docs are a great idea in theory, but sometimes it is hard to know what people really feel about the change or how it really works until its implemented in real‐time. There may be a few people whose entire process of doing service will be affected, and it may cause these members to leave service. The decision should be addressed by a larger group, not just people who are familiar with Google Docs to get a broader perspective. Training will also need to be addressed for Google Docs for incoming service members.
   • We have three new people comprising the tech team and we should give them a chance to resolve the website. The waste of time and resources working on the Google Docs transition can be justified because we now have the resources, whereas before we did not, and we needed an immediate resolution. The forceful push to implement Google Docs is the origin of the perceptions that members are starting to govern.
   • Frustrations have arisen as simple things are made perceivably more complicated, especially with communications within the thread. It was noted that the Training team was denied information to add to the training classes. This has caused some conflict within the group. We should rely on the newly elected Tech Team to fix the website before we transition to Google Docs. This will allow a user‐friendly process to keep things as simple and efficient as possible. Over communication has been a source of confusion. The happy compromise can be using the Google Docs until the Tech Team addresses the issues with the web site.
   • KISS ‐ Most of us are not computer experts, but it would be ideal to have the information on the website as well as available in Google Docs. One method may be easy for certain members, while difficult for others and vice versa. The differences in using phones and laptops may cause problems for service members depending on what type of device is being used. Having this information in both areas means that if you are Google Docs savvy that method can be used, or if you are better on the web site that method can be used.
   • It was noted that KISS may be interpreted differently by different people. There is a difference between over complicating and thinking through. More time may be needed by other members to understand all that was going on with the website. Regardless, there is a lot of confusion around this topic and things have been blown out of proportion. Past IT people have also struggled with our website, so we all need to understand how complex this can be now and in the future. Turnover or general service rotation within the tech team will likely cause the same issues to reoccur, putting the group in the same predicament we are in today. Other groups do not use a website to run the meetings, most other groups use the google docs. Once people become familiar with Google Docs, they will realize how simple and easy a system it is to use.
   • When looking under the hood of this website it is quite complicated. It doesn’t take a WordPress expert to run the site, but it will need a technical minded person with proficiency as a DBA as well as coding language experience. The ability to understand and configure changes to the site is also required. It is important to understand the site is loaded with many potential ‘gotchas’, which essentially means that we need to be very careful and thoughtful about changes to the site. One change could negatively affect other pages. We need to be aware of the dangers of unintended consequences.

1. • It looks simple from an end user perspective, but not so simple from a support perspective. We do not have a system of record, which is generally best practice when dealing with multiple systems. From a maintenance standpoint duplicative change will be necessary to accommodate both the web site and google docs. Making Google Docs the system of record may be one potential solution, this would relieve server resources thereby improving page load speed.
   • Long term thinking is essential in setting up our future tech team for success, rather than putting a future tech team in the same position we are in today. Speeding up the website is not the only measures we need, there are plenty of set up and configuring changes needed as well. The qualifications required to maintain this website are not skill sets that people outside of the tech world possess. We are asking a lot to continue to find people like Jovian (DBA / Programmer), Glenn and Don within our group to serve as Tech Admin.  Finding people like this in an AA group is not a normal occurrence. Most non‐technical people can and would be able to manage Google Docs. Our primary purpose is to stay sober and to help other alcoholics achieve sobriety, it is not to spend this much effort keeping a full‐blown web site. We need to preserve the valuable parts of the site (i.e.: service sign up forms, SC feedback, verifications).
   • Google docs in the cloud is a very common solution for all things around the world (one billion people are using it). It provides a simple mechanism for document storage and maintenance without needing to be on the website or logged into additional apps or systems. Our website is problematic and less efficient in this area – i.e.: the site has eight different themes with multiple block editors. This makes for labor intensive changes that take up a lot of time.

***All the SC members did thank Sarah and Elle for their dedication to addressing the emergencies with the Web Site. It was and is much appreciated!!!

Motion: To pause the transition to Google Docs and send to the BM in order to revisit the GC vote that approved using Google Docs for our website documents. The group can vote to overturn a GC at the very next BM if there are reconsiderations being brought forth. If the original GC is upheld it cannot be revisited for 6 months. If it is not upheld, then the new GC is put in place.

2. SC Response/Action (April SC Meeting)

Motion to bring to the BM passed 8‐0 with one 1 absent.

Mark M. read a statement from Sarah Sky contradicting the use of Google Docs. (*Sarah requested that the wording be changed here, as the statement wasn’t contradicting Google Docs.  SEE ADDENDUM BELOW for Sarah S’s statement.)  

No further discussion/voting needed because issue was resolved via motion above (during Glenn’s website report): we will use BOTH website and Google Docs

8. Reporting harassment or inappropriate behavior during a meeting ‐ Jayna

1. Issue: Being of service is important for my own sobriety and that of others so I don’t send this without great pause and thought. There is a service member that has struggled. Guidance has been given by several however certain things have not changed. As of last night, 4/27, while still cohosted from a sister meeting a person was removed while still in the waiting room because their name was listed as “Zoom user.” I was hosting the next hour and received a personal text expressing frustration that I removed her, and she couldn’t come back in for 24 hours. The cohost removed her, not knowing who she was because her name didn’t show, and the explanation was that they thought “zoom user” was likely a bomber. We are to allow them to prove themselves, so this was hasty. Accidents happen and we are all human so that was discussed and moved forward. Then, while I was still cohosted after hosting and during an influx of bombers, I received a call from the same service member that was very frustrated. Rightfully so as the bombing seems to target that member. Those on shift, myself included, were working diligently to remove them & did. But the conversation changed. Claims were made that they had reached out to “New York” and when I asked the reasoning behind it they said to “shut this bitch down.” I asked for clarification, and they said they wanted GUTS to be shut down entirely and once is they will be reporting the group to national media outlets. They also expressed that they were informing another group (319) of what’s going on in GUTS and speaking poorly of GUTS along with other complaints about the GI and a member of GUTS that is also a SC member. I had to end the call. They are still requesting to be on the schedule.  I ask on behalf of the scheduling team and for the greater good our group that their service in the marathon meetings be paused moving forward.

2. SC Response/Action

This was brought up AFTER 4/21 SC meeting, but we did not want the issue to fester for more than a month.

Ian – I’ve had issues with Jason co‐hosting during my hour too. I recommend not banning him from the meeting but just from service. Wouldn’t going to the media be a violation of our 11^th tradition?

Dennis – I think this individual needs some help and we can provide a list of resources. I recommend suspending his service privileges temporarily, perhaps 6mos.

Lauren – Our group does have a GC protocol for dealing with service members violating rules: 1^st infraction is a 7 day ban, 2^nd a 30 day and 3^rd is indefinite.

Amy – Jason didn’t get a warning and no vote occurred before he was kicked off the schedule. Would like clarification as to whether a scheduler has the right to do that?

Donna – I don’t know what’s going on but from my POV I saw Jason continuously asking to be reinstated and being blacklisted and I felt uncomfortable. There should’ve been more communication to service members. There has been some bad behavior by Jason and, despite attempts to correct it, it has continued and now meetings are being hijacked by him repeatedly apologizing.

Christian – SC & BM found GC that says the scheduler has discretion re. making the schedule. Harassment has been directed at the schedulers who have a very difficult job to begin with. He was left off schedule until this meeting so we could discuss the issue.  Nonetheless, communication should’ve been better.

Suzie – There are so many issues that people aren’t aware of, many of which are personal issues for Jason, that are ongoing despite extensive training, support and communication. It really affects group unity and is detrimental to members who have no idea what’s going on when Jason repeatedly shares about being harassed and begs the group for forgiveness, etc. His behavior goes against several traditions, doesn’t carry the message and breaks anonymity. Outside of meetings he’s contacting countless individuals to spread lies and misinformation. Folks need to see behind the curtain. There’s a lot more going on.

Jayna – Re. communication on scheduling, where should that have been shared and to whom? We have to be careful because it could be seen as gossip and we don’t want to hurt Jason’s feelings or embarrass him. Neither I nor Christian have made decisions unilaterally. We’ve reached out to others, including Jason’s sponsor, for advice as Jason’s behavior continues escalating. Jason has even begun reaching out to people on the men’s list (who aren’t in service) with misleading information.

John E – Jason went into the women’s meeting while they were in fellowship and refused to give them the 15mins they’re allotted. He made multiple phone calls to me referring to the women in Monday’s meeting as “bitches” and asking why certain members were voted into SC instead of him. We’ve worked with his sponsor to no avail. He’s openly stated that he “wants the GUTS meeting to go away”. The repeated phone calls to schedulers about gossip and issues unrelated to scheduling is harassment.

Amy – I’m uncomfortable with him being off the schedule for 6 weeks when processes weren’t followed. He wasn’t ever given a strike.

Ian – Jason has been repeatedly making amends to the whole meeting, telling people who don’t have much sobriety that what he says is “wisdom” and threatening to kill himself. There’s no right answer to give this individual.

Noelle – I don’t know Jason outside of GUTS meetings but he called me yesterday (got my number from the WhatsApp service chat) to complain about Jayna and ask how I was going to vote at today’s BM. I told him I didn’t even know what was going on (which I didn’t). He immediately started crying and said verbatim “I’m going to take 90 pills and I have a gun and am going to shoot myself if I can’t get back into service”. I had to contact another service member to have a welfare check done on him. The emergency responders said they are very familiar with Jason. He has also contacted me in the chat of the 319 AA meeting to complain about Ian. I support a temporary ban from the meeting and a permanent ban from service. His behavior is harassment and detracts from our primary purpose.

Christian – We could do better at communication. Jason and I have been working together. We spoke about boundaries and healthy interactions with people but I feel like Jason thinks he’s farther along in the steps than he is. I’ve offered to work through the steps with him but he just repeats back everything I want to hear then continues the same behavior. Jason I’m offering to work with you. Stop concentrating on being on SC, etc. That comes after you’re in the steps.

Donna – Jayna and John E. my heart goes out to you because you’ve been dealing with this a lot. I’ve been dealing with Jason’s text messages and he’s stuck on a loop. You’re damned if you do, damned if you don’t with anonymity.

John E – Interesting that someone in here supporting him has requested they not be on the schedule with him. There have been issues with him passing host. I can’t schedule him early in the week because he can’t put two sentences together. This gets better as the week goes on. Massive retraining recommended. GUTS can’t be represented like that. If you want this meeting to go away and you’re talking badly about service members why do you want to be in service? There is a LOT more to this story. I have to keep a separate list of people who will work with him and people who won’t. Absolutely no way to ever have him return to service.

Jason ‐ I’ve been targeted in AA meetings and I’ve lashed out and I apologized to the group. I was taken off the schedule by Jayna. I’ve been repeatedly zoombombed during meetings, being called a pedophile, a rapist and having my mugshot shown. I would like to make amends, be forgiven and placed back in service. I love GUTS and I love being in service. I won’t do this again. I love you guys.

Glenn – I’ve worked with you for years and I’d like to work with you again but I’ve had to step away from you because every time I’ve counseled you to not go postal on people, 5mins later you’re doing the exact same thing again. I’ve had to stop taking your calls for my own personal, emotional safety. Why don’t you take a break? There’s a path back but you have to demonstrate humility and we’ll help you. I love you man.

Daren – Jason, I love you. There is outside help we can get and many people in here need it. Jason, please work with these guys. They want to help you but it seems you’re turning your back on them. Perhaps you can return to service slowly….maybe start as greeter until folks can trust you again? You can be upgraded over time. Take time for yourself to work on this.

Suzie – There’s a lot of compassion and support but I’d like to propose a permanent ban for service.

Motion to permanently ban Jason: Seconded and NOT passed. (11 Yes/13 Dissent) Barb motions to ban Jason A. from service for 3mos.

Mary Mc motions to use the processed already in place and give him a 7‐day ban.

Lauren motions for an indefinite ban and group vote to return. Service strike #3. Seconded. Motion passed (18 Yes/2 No)

Ian motioned to table all remaining issues to next meeting (12 Yes/9 No)

9. Reporting harassment or inappropriate behavior during a meeting – Suzie J.

1. Issue: I regret this action, yet it needs addressing. I was accused of harassing and bullying a fellow SC member. This was stated in the GUTS announcements feed with 4 service members participating.

This is untrue, disparaging and is contrary to Tradition One. “Our common welfare should come first; personal recovery depends on A.A. Unity.” The Three Legacies of AA are: recovery, unity, and service.

These remarks were “broadcast” to all service members, by service members. My voice as a SC member has been described as an “attack” when offering input that did not align with their proposal for changes in our group.

I’m requesting this behavior cease, with the hope that these service members take the whole group into account, not just personal grievances without merit. As service members we should hold ourselves to a higher standard.

2. SC Response/Action

This was brought up AFTER 4/21 SC meeting, but we did not want the issue to fester for more than a month.

10. Topic for business meeting agenda: Combined three separate submissions. Lack of Coverage and Attendance for Sister Meetings (LGBTQIA+ & Allies and Traditions)

1. Issue/Background: Lack of Coverage and Attendance for Sister Meetings (LGBTQIA+ & Allies and Traditions). 
   • Out of consideration for our members I would like to request we add “on hold” for the LGBTQIA+ & Allies meeting in our script. I advocate for continuing to work to obtain a host and cohosts. This is a valuable resource and was cut short before it could fully develop.

1. • There seems to be a problem keeping hosts for the sister meetings. At least two meetings do not have any host and I am the only one on the traditions meeting, which is the only one I can host due to my work schedule. I have heard that one other meeting did not have a host recently.

1. • The Past Few Weeks there has been no host for The Sister on Sunday Nights I’m a suggestion we not have the Sunday Meeting no more. or we can just have a regular AA meeting. just start early 6:pst but my first motion is to stop the sister meeting the on Sunday nights since there has been no one showing up and hosting. Second is two just have a one‐hour regular AA meeting. or stop it altogether. and wait to the marathon meeting.

2. Steering Committee Discussion Points:

• There is a general lack of host / co‐host support for all Sister Meetings. This problem is beginning to compound across all the meetings. We may need to start combining some meetings in order to maximize the hosts / co‐hosts that are currently covering the meetings.

• The LGBTQIA+ and Allies may need to be put on hold, so we don’t have people going into the meeting and finding no one there to chair. It would be a shame to eliminate the meeting, but resources are a problem. New ideas need to be put forth since this meeting is a real value. Maybe put the meeting on hold for 30 days.

• During the announcements in the marathon meeting, it seems the sister meeting announcements are getting glossed over to more quickly get to the hands. A little more promotion may get additional people to step up. If the hosts are able to stress our need for help in this area we may get more people willing to serve. This is an instance where nothing gets wasted if people show up when there is no host. This might incentivize members to join our service team.

• Service cannot be mandated. But it would be bad if any of our meetings went dark because of a lack of service members. It looks bad for our group and very bad for any newcomers looking for one of these meetings. Different ways of encouraging members to step up for our Sister meetings need to be explored.

• It was noted that during summertime AA meeting attendance tends to decrease. Can we figure out if can limit or combine certain meetings to reduce the strain on the service team. Perhaps we can have Traditions or Big Book workshops instead of weekly meetings.

• There seems to be a larger issue of a lack of service commitments with all the Sister Meetings that will need to be addressed.

Motion: To send to the BM for a discussion on how we can better resource all our Sister Meetings. We need more service members to step up and cover these meetings.

3. SC Response/Action (April SC Meeting)

Motion to bring to BM for a discussion on how we can better resource all our Sister Meetings passed unanimously 9‐0. We need more service members to step up and cover these meetings.

11. GC Manual (Tabled Last Month) (Lauren)

Propose a voluntary committee to work on cataloguing all group conscience and creating a GC Manual. Some work has already been done but hoping a group of experienced members can finish the task.

12. Non‐Facilitated Topics (Tabled Last Month) (Lauren)

Any group‐approved BM topic/proposal that has not been facilitated for 3 months will be tabled until a concrete proposal is brought to the group. Investigation and background work for accomplishing those topics can still be done. Bring the completed project to the group when it is ready for group approval and implementation. Main concern is follow‐through on projects that have been left undone for months. The group has amazing ideas, but work must be done for these ideas to be accomplished.