Guts Emergency Business Meeting – 08/20/2023

8/20/2023 Emergency Business Meeting

BM Chair: Lauren

BM Co-Chair: Lisa

Secretaries: Elle and Lauren

1. Purpose of this Meeting
2. We will be discussing 13^thstepping as a group. We are giving people a safe place to discuss this topic which can plague many meetings. We will also be discussing why dating prior to 1 year of sobriety is not recommended.
3. The purpose of this meeting is not to regulate members’ dating lives. This is being brought forward for awareness of the issue itself that was presented in our SC feedback.
4. Presented the BM Notes, read off all the info on the agenda to help prepare everyone for appropriate discussions within the meeting. 
5. Lauren motioned to close the chat until open discussions started.
6. Seconded and Passed (22 Yes Votes/No Dissent)
7. Remember traditions 2, 3, 5,12 and the sick man’s prayer.
8. T2: For our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority—a loving God as He may express Himself in our group conscience. Our leaders are but trusted servants; they do not govern.
9. This meeting cannot intervene in the consensual dating lives of its attendees because that can be interpreted as governance. Group conscience can protect attendees with safety measures that fall in line with the AA Safety Card, Traditions, and other AA approved material.
10. T3: The only requirement for A.A. membership is a desire to stop drinking.
11. T5: Each group has but one primary purpose—to carry its message to the alcoholic who still suffers. 
12. T12: Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our traditions, ever reminding us to place principles before personalities.
13. This is not a platform to bring in other members’ private business or personal information about their dating lives. That would be a breach of their anonymity. Let’s prepare ourselves to look at the principles of the situations that are brought forward. Anonymity is not a cloak for 13^thstepping within the meeting because it directly affects the primary purpose and meeting safety.
14. Pg 67: God, when a person offends me, help me to remember this is a sick person. Help me show the same tolerance, pity, and patience that we would cheerfully grant a sick friend. Show me how I can help them. Save me from being angry. Thy will be done. 
15. Love and tolerance are our code. Please be respectful to anyone who is speaking in this meeting. We want this to be a comfortable environment for people to speak openly and honestly. Try to engage in active listening and compassion.

III.             13th Stepping and what AA Says

1. 13th stepping occurs when a more experienced member of AA with longer sobriety time pursues a newcomer (less than 1 year of sobriety) in a predatory/targeted way. 
2. This can be a problem in many meetings. We permanently banned a member for engaging in illegal predatory behavior per the AA Safety Card. Previously, this person 13th stepped a service team member and was only given a strike. This was later reevaluated, and a ban was issued due to repeated incidents of sexual manipulation/harassment towards a few other women in the group. This person had long-term sobriety time and was seeking newcomer females within the group. 
3. Currently, this group is working on Ban Guidelines to ensure that we remain consistent with the bans that are issued. Permanent bans are issued to those who break the law, and they are asked to leave. 
4. We can add the pattern of 13th stepping in the guidelines as a potential solution because it aligns with the safety card.
5. Non-consensual and inappropriate advances from other members in the program are a red flag and can be brought to a meeting’s attention. 
6. AA cannot and will not provide any legal advice. Please seek the proper authorities for legal help. Safety card states: “Predatory behaviors and unwanted sexual advances are in conflict with carrying the A.A. message of recovery and with A.A. principles.” 
7. Dating People Without 1 Year of Sobriety
8. It is highly suggested to not enter into a relationship prior to 1 year of sobriety. AA cannot police the dating lives of its members. That would be governance. Sometimes, mistakes need to be made before lessons can be learned. Consequences can’t be taught. They can be shared. The listener decides whether or not to take suggestions. Members involving themselves in relationships are consenting adults and not breaking the laws. AA can’t involve itself in the dating lives of its members, and the safety card doesn’t apply to consensual dating. 
9. Open the floor to people where either the individual or our primary purpose were directly affected and allow the group to have an open, meaningful conversation about this subject. 
10. Solution based discussion:  What can we do as a group moving forward to continue to protect the primary purpose and the newcomer? Remember traditions 2, 3, 5, 12, and principles before personalities. 
11. Keep these questions in mind when sharing.
12. Is there a pattern of behavior?
13. Is there predatory behavior? Is there an intent to harm or target newcomers specifically? 
14. Is there a hurt party present? Does anyone wish to report firsthand experience with 13th Stepping within the meeting?
15. Other suggestions?
16. Continue to refer people to the AA Safety card and encourage folks to read it. Safety and Our Common Welfare is a great resource too. 
17. Continue to encourage sponsorship.
18. Make sure the service team is consistently providing meeting members with the SC feedback form; it is for feedback as well as issues of harassment. 
19. Continue to move forward with the ban guidelines.
20. Solutions that were offered
21. Readings
22. In the beginning. Pg. 113 of 12 and 12.  
23. Living Sober chapter: Steering Clear of Emotional Entanglements
24. Utilize the gendered meetings and newcomer’s meeting.
25. Have an open discussion in that space for educational purposes.
26. Service members: “men stay with men; women stay with women.”  
27. Add in a blurb/education to the announcements. 
28. Add relevant info to the safety card announcement. Make sure it is concise, brief, and be mindful of the language/wording. 
29. Add a blurb that can direct people to the proper channels for these issues.
30. Training-Suggestions that can be given as safety measures.
31. “Men stay with men; women stay with women.” Needs to be explicitly stated and encouraged. Also, letting people know that resources for the LGBTQIA+ community are given too. 
32. Reading the AA Safety Card during training. 
33. General complaint form?
34. Do we give Maya’s info to people?  Immediate support?  How do we keep them in the meeting?
35. Complaint form should be more than one person.
36. Stick to the SC feedback form which is in place for issues of harassment. 
37. 24/7 contact list specifically for issues of harassment.
38. Appropriate language and behavior are important. The BM discussion can provide a lot of insight and different perspectives that can be incredibly useful with this uncomfortable subject. 
39. Stick to the solution and the GC that is already in place. Anyone can read the BM Notes on the Website to understand GC or direct any questions to Lauren/Any other SC Member/Any Experienced Member. Also, GC can change. Revisitation of topics can happen every 6 months. The SC feedback is the place to offer suggestions or request to revisit GC.
40. Jobs that you are there for: specific people do specific things every shift. We will be revisiting this topic at the BM.
41. Making sure that a healthy mixture of genders are scheduled to work together to help accommodate our newcomers, protect our service team, and can be an additional safety measure for attendees.

VII.           BM Discussion

1. Lauren: Started the conversation. I was initially hesitant to share this because I didn’t want people to perceive that I was trying to tell people what they should or shouldn’t do. It’s also deeply personal to me. I simply shared my experience and the lessons I learned through CoDA, AA, and the first-hand experience of dating prior to 1 year of sobriety. That relationship lasted for a year. I relapsed after 6 months (not because of the person), and I have stayed sober since that time. Regardless of the cause for my relapse, there are many reasons why that relationship caused despair, was detrimental to my growth, and impeded my progress. There was harm that I caused because I was not recovered enough to maintain a relationship. I do not regret the relationship because I was strengthened by the experience, and I truly loved the other person, despite what happened. However, I do not recommend it to others. I am sharing this in the spirit of being helpful. You can take it or leave it. This applies to what I learned, and not referring to what anyone else is doing. Through CoDA and AA, I have learned to develop healthier attachments and stay sober.
2. I will discuss the reasons, based on my own experiences, why 1 year of sobriety can be beneficial. Working on the program and starting a new relationship is not an impossibility and/or governed by AA, but it’s not recommended.
3. CoDA is a great program that can help people with establishing boundaries, maintaining healthy relationships, improving self-esteem, and working through toxic and addictive behavior in relationships. Relationships can be an addiction and evoke similar emotions that substances create. There’s no shame in working multiple programs, and the benefits can be life changing. For many of us, other programs are necessary for a well-rounded recovery (me included).
4. Entering into a new relationship can seem appealing as an escape from the pain of getting and staying sober. Riding the pink cloud of being in love can be another numbing agent and distraction from introspection. Being in love evokes the reasoning, “Well, we will be the exception.” “This time is different.” For many of us, sobriety means staying alive and taking that chance is risky business. If the liaison is truly an exception, then giving a person time to grow and heal is bare minimum effort.
5. Heartbreak, especially in early recovery, can create additional damage to one’s emotional sobriety. Relationships can be the downfall for a lot of us because feelings of heartbreak are not filtered or lessened. Emotions are felt at full capacity, which can be debilitating. Some risks are worth taking, and love can seem like a worthy risk because loving people is human. I would urge caution before taking that risk until healthier coping mechanisms are developed, recovery tools are actively practiced and utilized, and a strong foundation is built through the step work. As someone who stayed sober through heartbreak, it took an enormous amount of recovery work just to get through each minute of every single day without wanting to fall to pieces. Staying sober through heartbreak is possible, but it hurts a lot.
6. Taking time to work on oneself prior to romantic involvement with other people can be necessary to develop a healthy relationship. Both parties play a role in that. People deserve to recover. True love is unconditional. That time can be used to establish support and friendship which can be a great foundation.
7. Waiting 1 year is not a punishment. If anything, it is a gift. Learning to find value, love, and self-esteem without outside validation is priceless. Discerning the causes behind relationship baggage, character defects, fears, and resentments can help strengthen recovery and prevent the mess from seeping into a relationship. Having newfound awareness through the work done in the program can help create healthier attachments and expectations within relationships. Sometimes, healthy relationships are a byproduct of accomplished recovery work and emotional sobriety.
8. Part of getting out of “self” and “ego” means setting aside personal desires for the consideration of others. Going to any length for one’s recovery is never easy and requires fundamental changes that start from within. Sobriety is the number one priority because all the secondary aspects of life corrode away when sobriety isn’t present or consistent. The destruction that drinking causes knows no bounds and poisons others. One of the most selfless acts in this program is to take care of ourselves first. When the sickness isn’t maintained, it spreads and could hurt those who are closest. Irrevocable damage can be caused to both people in a relationship without physical sobriety. I look at staying sober, working on myself, and letting go of the past as a responsibility to protect the people I love from the harm that I caused while drinking and exhibiting toxic behavior. I had to find value in my own life and put myself first.
9. Dennis-Pointed out that successful relationships happen in AA, and he witnessed that success in his own sponsor. He and his wife met in AA and stayed sober for 50 years. He read pg. 113 in the 12&12.  He reiterated the point that AA is not a dating service. We should be able to have safety measures that keep people safe from those who are looking for a date. For the Ban Guidelines, he proposed that this discussion should be included in a section called “Additional Thoughts.” 
10. Kristen-This topic can be controversial and uncomfortable. Part of the solution is having the discussion and openly addressing the problem. Not keeping anything behind closed doors. This issue has caused good people to leave and created lasting conflict in the group dynamics. To not talk about this issue would be irresponsible. There are women who have felt uncomfortable turning their cameras on. We don’t want to be known as a group where people will try to date others. Her main concern was service members using their position to connect to newcomers. She feels protective of the newcomers in the room and wants to stay true to the primary purpose. Kristen wanted the group to be aware that this behavior can be extremely deceptive and come across as charming. Manipulation isn’t always aggressive; it can be calculated. There needs to be some semblance of accountability for this behavior. A member’s popularity can deter people from speaking out. That’s why “principles over personalities” is such an important aspect of tradition 12. Based on firsthand experience, she posed the question, “In early recovery, are you truly able to consent to this behavior?” “Are we truly clear-headed?” Do we have the mental capacity to deal with this?
11. Thomas: Sometimes, meanings behind people’s words can get misinterpreted. He paid someone a compliment, and he was perceived to be flirting. Conflict and friction can happen in a meeting. Relationships start to feel like they can become possible in the first two years. Steering clear of emotional entanglements can be a wise move. Try to follow the suggestions in the Big Book as much as possible. Make sure to work with a sponsor with this issue. He suggested that we could include a short statement about avoiding emotional attachments to others in the first year.
12. Garrett-This has always been a problem in AA, and a complete resolution is unclear. We don’t want to be the arbitrator of anyone’s sex conduct. However, we also want to protect GUTS as a whole. He encouraged an education-based discussion about this topic at respective Women’s/Men’s meetings along with the Newcomer’s Meeting.
13. Lauren (side note):  It can be important for newcomers to have a safe place to discuss and hear about these kinds of issues. Later in the meeting, we motioned for Garrett’s suggestion. The group voted for the men’s, women’s, and newcomer’s meetings to use this topic in their respective meetings. This subject is highly relevant to all meetings, not just ours. Encouraging the safety of our attendees and having them equipped with necessary knowledge rooted in AA literature can be indispensable. Newcomers are the most susceptible and vulnerable to this behavior.
14. Charlie-It’s not up to us to determine when someone is ready to be in a relationship. Dating is highly situational for each individual. Also, he suggested doing some step work before entering a relationship because it might be helpful. Everyone is different, give everyone the information, and let people come to their own conclusions. A clear-cut solution to this topic seems unclear, but he suggested adding a blurb or including something in the announcements.
15. Donna-She raised the question, “How does 13 stepping affect me personally?” She said that when this issue was first raised in the meeting, she wanted to leave. These topics were initially directed towards a specific person. 2 people left. This is the second time people have left due to feeling like they were being personally attacked. Some kind of proof needs to be given. Let’s see the receipts. Not listening to gossip or hearsay. Despite all this, she understands that there is a need to protect the newcomers. She also pointed out that people of any gender can be affected by this behavior.  She emphasized our GC and for people to direct their specific complaints to the feedback. She also urged the group to let people feel safe through this process.
16. Lauren (Side Note): Donna raises a valid point about not listening to hearsay. “He said” “She said” can be damaging to people. Hearsay can be a distraction from looking at the principles of the matter. The focus of the actual issue can get lost. She offers a good point about looking for some credibility and facts. Later on, Kristen makes a valid point about believing people when they bring forward complaints too. I think there’s a balance between these perspectives and both should be considered when dealing with complaints.
17. Amy-Blasting people in the threads accomplishes nothing, causes problems, and reactionary emotions can be harmful. Does not support issues where people are being attacked. Going through the proper channels with complaints is extremely important. It can be helpful to call sponsors prior to making a complaint or reacting. 
18. Lindsay- Service team should be focused on newcomers and the primary purpose, not dating. Hitting on people can cause alienation. We can’t control people who organically fall in love with each other. When there’s a pattern of that behavior, it’s not exactly organic. There needs to be a clear definition that it is inappropriate for service members to hit on people in the meeting.
19. Richard-It can be good for people to know that we still live in the real world where issues still affect people in the meeting. Err on the side of caution when it comes to wolves in sheep’s clothing. He also suggested adding something to the safety card script.
20. Dennis-13th Stepping was brought to GSO’s attention. He suggested adding something to the safety card announcement.
21. Suzie-Learned a lot about sexual harassment; it’s not as much about the person giving it as the person receiving it. Comments can be taken wrong — minor or serious. People might think that their comment is benign, but it can be perceived differently. Service members have a responsibility to not engage in this kind of behavior. When someone on the service team approaches us, the power dynamic can be confusing. She suggested a blurb.
22. Maya-She is interested in solutions and protecting the newcomer, not people’s dating lives. AA is not a dating service. There is a pattern of people feeling uncomfortable. We are all here to live. She was interested in knowing if we could have a general complaint form for harassment and a way to offer other resources to people. She has a plethora of experience with gaining resources that can help members of the meeting. Suggested that we start using the 24/7 Contact List.
23. Lauren (Side Note): I love the idea of giving immediate support and resources, and I would not be opposed to finding a way to do this alongside our current GC. I have just thought of a way to do that, but I need a little time to synthesize it and bring the two concepts together.
24. Mary: Doesn’t need to know the specifics and doesn’t want to know them (Anonymity). Predatory behavior towards newcomers is wrong. Service is a privilege. Regulating dating within the first year — Bordering on governance by the group. Announcements are long already: how can we do this without extending them? She suggested adding something very brief. There is a process in place, and we need to follow it through.
25. Don-Take a look at our own motives. Keep to our own side of the street. Not all of us are victims. More organization can be a good idea, but he encouraged a hands-off approach. Not controlling everything.
26. Lynda-This was advertised as an emergency meeting and there’s a complaint on the table.  Are we going to move towards it? We have some things in place already. Complaint form should stay the same and not be controlled by one person.
27. Kelly-Everybody was there for me, there were cautious suggestions: get a sponsor, work the program, work the steps, and stay in the rooms. We don’t want this to be a place where people don’t feel welcome. Predators should be called out. Hate to see two people leave after having their inventory taken. Is there literature available? This is a very delicate issue, and we have to be careful not to overstep our bounds. She suggested finding a relevant AA pamphlet that we can use.
28. Kristen-Regarding her initial share, she wanted to make it clear that she was not referring to the two people who left service. She has seen numerous incidents where service team members were preying on newcomers. That’s where the focus needs to be and that was what she was referring to. She wanted to let the group know that predatory behavior isn’t always aggressive and to be on the lookout for those who are adept at being manipulative. She’s not referring to people simply dating. Not focus on the popularity of a member in the group but the behavior itself. Popularity can discourage people from speaking out. She wanted to let the group know that people can be believed when they bring forward complaints. It hurts people when they are not believed. Principles before personalities. She suggested that we have safety measures/guidelines in place when this kind of behavior is exhibited. That’s where she wanted the focus to remain.
29. Jeremy: Fine line between governing and dating. Personally involved with handling one of the complaints. We need to talk to people when they are crossing boundaries. Relationships can go sideways. He encouraged an explicit and direct statement within the safety card announcement. Something that gets the point across very clearly. Service members need to be informed of the expectations within the meeting and what is not allowed. Direct people to the proper channels to understand that bans or strikes will happen when our guidelines are not followed. Direct any guidelines that need to be created to the Ban Guidelines Committee.
30. Maya: Doesn’t care about people dating. It’s the pattern that is causing concern. She proposed banning people from service when they date multiple people.
31. Charlie: Wondered if there were any solutions that could be implemented through Zoom.
32. Adriana: Predatory behavior is the issue, not dating multiple people. People should be allowed to date who they want to date. She also pointed out that a lot of people’s motives can be misinterpreted. Everyone perceives comments in different ways.
33. Suzie: The focus should be on unwanted behavior brought forth by a person. Don’t care who ya date. If you are using your service position to date people, it’s a problem.
34. Lauren cut off the shares after Suzie because the meeting was longer than two hours. It wasn’t anything personal.

VIII.          Business Meeting Summary

1. Everyone in attendance felt that predatory behavior needed to be addressed immediately. This behavior is not condoned at all, and people will be asked to leave when they do not adhere to the Safety Card/Group Guidelines. In terms of dating, most felt that this topic is a gray area. There were many different perspectives.
2. Members did a great job keeping the focus on solutions and protecting people’s anonymity. People don’t have to divulge every detail or give full context in order to reach the point or solution. I would urge the group to avoid assumptions and not interpret everything as an attack. Sometimes, members use their long-term experience to offer the group a solution. Keep in mind that other factors could play into members’ caution when revealing specific information such as protecting other people’s personal business. Be very careful when jumping to conclusions. There were times where people perceived passive aggression in a person’s share, or people thought that a person’s share was referring to someone specifically. This was not the case; it was a completely different situation. There were members who were being mindful of the information that they were revealing and being careful not to cause harm by breaking anonymity. In Business Meetings, try to remember the 11th step prayer “To understand rather than to be understood.”
3. SC members can call for an emergency meeting due to serious safety issues per GC. 13th stepping would be considered a very serious safety issue. There was feedback placed, but we opted to facilitate the feedback by holding this meeting while focusing on the larger issue. We do our best to protect people’s anonymity and not put others’ private business on blast. Doing so can detract from the solutions and create mob mentality. Us vs one person. We did not feel that it was fair or right to hold this meeting about one individual or try to alienate anyone by turning this into an attack session. SC members agreed that giving a space to discuss the topics of 13th stepping and Dating Prior to 1 Year as broader topics would be more conducive for solution-based discussion. The meeting itself was designed to be part of the solution. 
4. The group cannot interfere with members’ dating lives because that is an individualistic endeavor. However, suggesting that members have a cushion, such as, working the steps and having some time before embarking on a new relationship can also be beneficial. Many sponsors/experienced members suggest a one-year timeframe. Just like anything else in the program, we all learn at our own pace and prerogative. There are those of us who do not take this suggestion and understand the ramifications. Highlighting the benefits of this suggestion can be helpful for others too. Many agreed that people’s dating lives are not our business. We need to be careful about governance. 
5. Many people wanted us to also be aware of patterns of behavior. A pattern of behavior where people are dating other members repeatedly can be a red flag. There are times when people do fall in love organically, but a pattern of that kind of behavior can come across as inauthentic. Most people were very clear that AA is not a dating service.
6. There is a responsibility for service team members to engage with members of the meeting appropriately. Many members wanted the group to be more mindful of how we can safely distribute resources in the regular meeting and provide educational discussions regarding these topics through our training team, gendered meetings, guidelines, and regular meeting script/blurb. Many members were concerned about extending the script because it is already long. They emphasized that it would need to be direct and short.
7. Our SC feedback is basically our general complaint form. We have a lot of GC in place already for harassment and our SC feedback. Over the course of 9 months, we have been building GC around safety measures and how to deal with harassment. Our SC feedback is how we avoid unilateral decisions because all of it goes to the committee. The feedback is brought to the group, and we vote and/or propose solutions. That’s the purpose of our Steering Committee. Many brought up that we need to direct people to the proper channels.
8. Voting
9. Lauren motioned to add a short, concise, and straightforward sentence(s) to the AA Safety Card Announcement and a cohost blurb that is relevant to this BM. Language and wording will matter when it is written. It will be brought to the group for approval.

–        Seconded and Passed (23 Yes Votes/1 No Vote)

1. Lauren motioned to remand any guidelines that need to be created regarding this BM to the Ban Committee. Lauren remands this discussion and proposed solutions to the Ban Guidelines Committee. 

–        Seconded and Passed (24 Yes Votes/No Dissent)

1. Lisa motioned to remand the information from this BM to the gendered/newcomer meetings to educate newcomers and make sure they are given the resources, tools, and spaces for safe discussion.

–        Seconded and Passed (22 Yes Votes/No Dissent)

1. Lisa motioned for the trainers to read the AA Safety Card to incoming service members and explicitly state “Men with men; women with women”/LGBTQIA+ Resources during training. 

–        Seconded and Passed (22 Yes Votes/No Dissent)

1. Lauren motioned for a 24/7 Contact List. This is tabled for further investigation.

–        Seconded and Passed (19 Yes Votes/No Dissent)

1. Lisa brought up revisiting the “Specified Jobs” Topic from a previous BM. Lauren reminded the group that we decided not to specify jobs. Lisa pointed out that we can add a change and might want to have another discussion. Lauren agreed that it can be revisited per GC. Once it has gone through the BM process again, the topic can’t be revisited for 6 months.
2. Motion to revisit the “Specified Jobs” Topic to include scheduling a mixture of genders. They would be scheduled to work together to help accommodate our newcomers, protect our service team, and can be an additional safety measure for attendees.

–        Seconded and Passed (19 Yes Votes/No Dissent)

1. Jeremy brought up having a GC where service team members can explicitly encourage “Men with men; women with women” during the regular meeting. He offered to post Steering Committee feedback regarding this.

–        Lauren-I know it was discussed at the Jan 8 BM. It has been longer than 6 months since we had that Business Meeting, and it can definitely be revisited. I will bring it to the next SC Meeting. We also have the LGBTQIA+ resources/Contact List to distribute to members so that anyone can feel comfortable about who they contact.